Reel Heads Podcast Episode 9: Trap

[00:00:01] Speaker A: So did you ever used to watch Robot Chicken? [00:00:07] Speaker B: Yeah, A lot, actually. I used to love that show. [00:00:09] Speaker A: Do you remember there was one episode where, like, they have M. Night Shyamalan as a character and he'll just pop up onto the screen after something weird happened and he would be like, oh, what a twist. [00:00:25] Speaker B: No, but that definitely sounds like something Robot Chicken would do. [00:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I just. That's, like, kind of how, like, my first introduction to this guy, like, who he was or what he was. I didn't really fully know. [00:00:39] Speaker B: You hadn't seen an M. Night movie. You just. [00:00:40] Speaker A: I don't think so. I might have. [00:00:42] Speaker B: You just saw him in Robot Chicken as a cameo. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:45] Speaker B: I love that. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's how I was introduced to him. And I looked him up, I think, after that. [00:00:50] Speaker B: So more you, like, were you, like. [00:00:52] Speaker A: I was like, middle school. Oh. Of him as in general. Like, once I looked him up. [00:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, we're like, this guy seems like. What was your thoughts? [00:00:59] Speaker A: Like, I just was like, okay, cool. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Did you go seek out his movies? [00:01:05] Speaker A: Not really, no. I. I did later on in life, but. [00:01:08] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:01:10] Speaker A: And, like, I think. I think when, like, one of his movies was on, like, the best movies of the 90s on Watch Mojo, I think that's when I started to seek out stuff. But that's all I can remember. That's. That was my first introduction. [00:01:27] Speaker B: That was your first interaction. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:30] Speaker B: I think I always knew about the I See Dead People thing. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:35] Speaker B: But, like. Because it was just like, that was such, like, a pop cultural thing, and I think I only first knew about that through Scary Movie because I made that joke in Scary Movie and I was like, oh, funny. But it was already so, like, culturally all over the place, people just saying that, you know, in, like, silly context then. I don't think I knew fully who M Night was probably until, I think, the Visit, I think. I think. Because the Visit came out, and I think we were either in junior high or high school. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:13] Speaker B: But, like, early. Either early. Early high school or late junior high. I feel like it. You know, that's a decently older movie. And I remember, you know, just, like, people being like, oh, I'm not Shyamalan. And I'm like, isn't that. That's the I see Dead People guy, you know? And I still have yet to see that movie, but it's one of the movies where it's, like, it's been spoiled, you know? So, like, why do. Why watch it? You know, maybe I'll watch it. [00:02:38] Speaker A: It's still really good. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure I'll watch it at some point, but it's like I've. I kind of know the whole film. You know what I mean? [00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:44] Speaker B: So it feels like the magic kind of got taken away, but I'm thinking like, oh, it's that guy that people always talk about. So maybe it's going to be a really good movie. Saw in theaters actually and loved it. You know, it's a great movie. I think it's still to this day my favorite M. Night movie, the Visit. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Is that the old lady. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah. The grandparents. Where the kids go to their grandparents house for the, for the week and they do a visit. [00:03:04] Speaker A: I never seen that one. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy stuff happened. I'm not going to tell you because it's got, in my opinion, one of the cooler Shyamalan twists that you. You don't see coming. Like, you're just like. And the way that, the way that it. On it unveils and the way that it unfolds was just very well done. Like, you know, like it's not very like Handholdy, you know, they don't like have to detailly explain or like make sure that you know before it happens so you're not confused. Like it happens. It gets revealed and explained in a way that's just kind of like. Yep. Matter of fact. Like. And then you're like, yeah, that makes sense. Wow. Okay. Crap, that's. Yeah, I'm in this good movie. But yeah, that was my, my first real foray into Shyamalan land. [00:03:49] Speaker A: All right, well, that being said, welcome to the podcast, guys. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe we intro. That was kind of the intro, I guess. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a little bit. I. More so was. I think my point of that was to just say we're talking about an M. Night Shyamalan film. [00:04:05] Speaker B: If you guys didn't know, we're talking about Robert Eggerts. Oh, sorry. M. Night Shyamalan. I mean, yeah, I get those two names confused sometimes. [00:04:14] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, same person pretty much. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah, they look alike a little bit. [00:04:20] Speaker A: But anyways, we're talking about the M. Night Shyamalan film that came out a couple months ago. We just caught it on Max. It is called Trap. It's got Justin Hartnett. I think that's how you pronounce it. Ariel. Ariel. [00:04:35] Speaker B: Oh, Donna. You. Josh Hartnett. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Oh, is it Josh? [00:04:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:39] Speaker A: Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. Josh Hartnett, not Justin. Josh Hartnett. Ariel Donahue. And in my. Sean Long's daughter, Selka. I think it's. Yeah, Salika. I'll make sure to pronounce that right for now. Celica, who? There is some other people in the cast, but those are pretty much the main three. [00:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to throw a quick shout out on there because I don't think that you caught this. So in the film, there's like a FBI doctor agent lady. Whatever the crap, we'll get to her. But actress wise. So the character is Dr. Josephine Grant and actor wise, played by Haley Mills. Do you know who Haley Mills is? The Haley Mills. [00:05:25] Speaker A: I know that she's a big star. I don't know. [00:05:27] Speaker B: So we got to put a little bit of respect on her name. Right. Okay. So Haley Mills was known for this movie Pollyanna, which I've never seen, but I think that's past our generation, and I think this a very highly regarded film. But she also was the original Annie in the Parent Trap, so film royalty there. And then after that movie, went on to lead her own Disney Channel sitcom called Good Morning Ms. Bliss. Now, the funny thing about Good Morning, Ms. Bliss was it was a show about junior high teacher and her fun and quirky students. They filmed 14 episodes of that show before the studio exec said, you know what? We don't like this scrap the idea. Took a handful of those cast members. You know what they turned that show into? [00:06:15] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Saved by the Bell. [00:06:17] Speaker A: Really? [00:06:17] Speaker B: Yep. [00:06:18] Speaker A: Really. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Is that not crazy? [00:06:19] Speaker A: That is crazy. [00:06:20] Speaker B: That's crazy. When I learned that, I was like, shoot, man, Hollywood wild. It's crazy how certain TV shows and movies, like, come into existence and people forget sometimes like that history. I mean, they don't usually, like, plastered out there and they didn't repackage the show and say, hey, this is, you know, good Morning Miss Bliss, part two or anything like that. They literally just rebranded, took everything away and started on a season one episode. One season one. You know, even though they already filmed and aired 14 episodes, I'm like, that's. [00:06:53] Speaker A: That's pretty crazy. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So the Miss. Ms. Haley. Ms. Haley Mills, you know, could have been in Saved by the Bell, but Gene, she was in other cool things. [00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I know she was. I just. I didn't know. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:04] Speaker A: What else she was in. But. Yeah, but that's our cast. And once again, I think, like I said, we'll get into a little more of M. Night. I think right now, like, we were talking in the. [00:07:17] Speaker B: I want to shout out my skull mug, too. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Yeah, your skull mug. [00:07:20] Speaker B: Shout out. Shout out skull mug. [00:07:21] Speaker A: It's Pretty gnarly. [00:07:22] Speaker B: This is pretty sick mug. Yeah. Shout out to you if you're. If you. If you're not on YouTube and looking at this through video, you're missing out. This thing's got skulls are all around it. I'm not talking like. No, it's not just bad skulls, like. Like ugly, like boo boo. Like these. It's a lot of skulls. [00:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it is a lot of skulls. [00:07:41] Speaker B: And what I got in here I can't disclose, but it's tasty, I'll tell you that. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is fine. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Have you tasted yours? [00:07:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I have. [00:07:52] Speaker B: It's pretty good. [00:07:53] Speaker A: It's pretty strong. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Pretty strong. [00:07:55] Speaker A: It's a little strong. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Mine doesn't taste as strong. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Maybe you got most of it probably, but it's okay. So, M. Night, we were talking about his. His past films for me, I think, you know, you said your favorite was the Visit. I think my favorite has been Sixth Sense. Like, I feel like that was his debut film. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Did you get the ending spoiled for you before you watched? [00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I knew. [00:08:19] Speaker B: And still was your favorite. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it holds up. I think that there's. I love that that movie is. Is really good and has really good. Really good plot points. And Bruce Lewis is really good in it. I. I'm trying to think what else I've seen of his. I tried to watch the Village, but I was trying to watch it during a holiday and there's people over and talking. [00:08:42] Speaker B: And I think I remember my brother got the Village on a bootleg DVD from some Hispanic lady that was selling bootlegs out of, like, a shopping cart. And I remember we tried to sit down and watch it, and it was one of those really bad ones where, like, the guy's really trying to make sure he doesn't get caught, and he's, like, fumbling around too much of the camera. So you know your shots all out of focus half the time, and then you hear people sneezing and coughing. It was a bad. It was. It was a bad recording. So I remember getting, like, halfway through and just walking out of the room. Like, I don't even care to watch the rest of this, you know? So, like, that could have been like my actual first Shyamalan, but I was like, no, I don't. I don't know about this. [00:09:28] Speaker A: No. I mean, if you walk out halfway, I would say that now, if the movie is just completely trash, then. [00:09:33] Speaker B: No, it had nothing to do with the film in general. And I was so young. I don't remember, like, Even the plot. Right? Yeah. You know, same. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Same. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Here is there was like a girl with like a. Like a red cloak or something, Right. Like, I feel like I remember like a red cloak. [00:09:47] Speaker A: I remember also from the scary movie franchise. They kind of made fun of that too. So I remember them being like in close cloaks or. [00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Like some type of like rain protecting garment. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah, something like that. But that's like all I remember. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:01] Speaker B: So that's why I say, like, still for me, I. I say the Visit was my first because I actually watched it, planned to watch it, because this wasn't like, I was so young when that movie came out that the Village that, like, I don't think I was even really old enough to watch scary movies. But my brother, who's older than me, would always try to get me to watch scary movies. So he was the one that was kind of like, come on, Marquez, let's sit down. Let's watch this. [00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I watched a little bit of scary. I. I didn't really love scary movies growing up, but like, I do now, but I think that. Let's see what else There's Split. I seen Split. That was pretty good. Knock at the cabin was pretty good. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Split was pretty good. [00:10:48] Speaker A: I didn't. [00:10:48] Speaker B: I like, knocked at the cabin. [00:10:50] Speaker A: I didn't really see old. I didn't see old. [00:10:52] Speaker B: I don't particularly like old that much, but he. [00:10:56] Speaker A: He's. He's known for his hits and misses. Like, I feel like. I feel like it was like people loved him for Signs, which I also haven't seen. [00:11:05] Speaker B: He's a divisive filmmaker. Yeah, he's a very divisive filmmaker, but. Excuse me, I clear my throat. What I will say, I really applaud Shyamalan for his sheer tenacity when it comes to his filmmaking style. He really just, like, he makes what he makes, you know, like, he wants to make art the way he wants to make it. And that in itself, like, that's an auteur. Like, you are an auteur. And people can love or hate his style of art, and that's totally up to interpretation. But I love that, like, he's never sold out. The guys always made what he wants to make with very little to no studio interference. And that could be for better or for worse, but, you know, like, the dude's doing it and that's, you know, that's commendable. [00:11:54] Speaker A: Yeah, No, I agree. That's what I had Lily down is like, his passion for filmmaking is. He definitely doesn't Let anything really hinder him. [00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah. It's always inspiring to see. Like, whenever he makes a movie, you know, people always have whatever to say about them, you know, good or bad. But, like, listening to him talk about his process and for each film and the things that he's doing, like, it's so clear that he. He loves to do this. [00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:19] Speaker B: You know, you can tell that some people when they make films that whether it's either just like a complete studio film that, you know, they just paid some random director to kind of just babysit and, like, they just make a movie and if you can tell there's no real heart behind it, like, love or hate, his plots, his. His dialogue, whatever, you can tell that, like, every film that he makes, like, there's so much heart behind it. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. I think it also, like, shows. I. I was watching some stuff about him in interviews, and he mentioned that a lot of his movies, like, the majority of his movies are about losing the nuclear family. That is in his own life, where, you know, he. He has, I think, a few daughters and, you know, his wife. And he said that a lot of the movies that he will write is, like, his own fears of losing one of them, you know, or even. I mean, you can even go further and say to please them, because he's. The. Their love for the. Avatar the Last Airbender was the whole reason why he made Avatar the Last Airbender. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Though whatever you feel about that film is how you feel about it. [00:13:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:38] Speaker A: But, you know, like, I think that, you know, watching Sixth Sense, I think that even watching all the way up until this film of, you know, of Trap, like, you could tell that losing the nuclear family and the main character are always something that, like, resonates not only with him, but, you know, other people, you know, nationwide. So I thought that was pretty interesting. And then he's also, like, you know, his daughters are also now getting into the industry with. And he's producing some of them, which. I know you've seen the Watchers. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:16] Speaker A: It was one of his daughters. Directed her first directorial debut. Yeah. Which I haven't seen. I've heard not great things about it from you as well, which, I mean, not everyone makes a hit, you know, their first time around, you know, so. [00:14:32] Speaker B: No. And again, like. Like, you know, I. Did we not do an episode for the Watchers? [00:14:37] Speaker A: We did not. No. We talked about it in one of our reviews because he was a producer for another movie that we saw. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah. So just a slight tidbit. It was like the Watchers, it's. It is a good movie. It's definitely not a great film, at least from my eyes. Like there, there are just a couple plot like threads that just don't line up. But it's not bad. I wouldn't watch, so I wouldn't say the Watchers is a bad movie. I wouldn't say it's not enjoyable. As one thing that I feel like M. Night does land in all of his films and I think that that bleeds over into his daughter's work as well, is that none of those films that they make are boring or not entertaining to some degree or another. You know, so at the end of the day, like if all you want to, you know, for a movie is entertainment, you're always going to get that with Shyamalan and I would assume also his daughter if she continues to make films. Especially going off of that first one. It wasn't a box office failure and it wasn't a critical failure either. No, like it was fine. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Well, it was pretty. It was pretty big horror, you know, horror themed. And I feel like right now like the movies that are doing well and at the box office are either franchises or a horror movie. So like you can argue that no horror film is really going to do terrible unless it's like some. Right. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Like when he looked too much at the. At the box office numbers for horror films right now. You're right. Because they. That is the popular genre right now I would argue is. It's the most popular genre right now is horror film. Superhero films are gone. We're done with those. Big budget action films are also kind of gone. You know, that's why people were so up in arms about. I wouldn't say up in arms. It sounds like more negative, but that's why people were so jumping out of their seats and joy for Top Gun Maverick because it was like they felt like, oh, a true return to form. And you know, like this is the summer blockbusters we've been. We've been missing because it's like we've. We've had what that we've had. You had the Uncharted movie. You had. I forgot about Godzilla movie. Like ah, man, the. Yeah, Godzilla, King Kong. I can't really. I'm struggling to think of. Of more than even like five big blockbuster action films, you know, but I can name so many big budget horror films that have came out. And obviously that's, that's our genre. That's. That's my favorite genre to talk about. But it's What's. It's what's being made. A lot. A lot of those. A lot of that is being made. It's either that or they're doing these sequels and recalls, you know, sprinkled in here and there of. Of past IPs and whatnot. But, like, comedy movies are down, you know, and we're just talking theaters. You can. You can talk straight. Like, streaming is a whole different beast. And obviously they're going to have every single genre under the sun making films because it's streaming. But, like, you know, we're talking about theaters now. Like, the. The rom coms are down, the comedies are down, action adventures are down. I feel like we still have a good interest in space movies. The space movies also kind of can kind of bleed more into horror as well with, like, your Alien franchises. But it's really just like horrors is what's getting made a lot. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:06] Speaker B: A lot of horrors getting made and getting thrown to the big screen. And I'm not mad at it. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I wouldn't think you were mad at it. I'm not necessarily mad at it. I do feel like every film deserves to be seen at least at least once or twice. Not twice, obviously, I mean, but at least once on the big screen. Screen. But I. I do think, like, it is something that is kind of being lost is like they're making movies to be viewed as attractions to an extent, which is not like a horrible, but it's also like you lose some sort of, like, you know, you lose some sort of originality, I think, to an extent. [00:18:52] Speaker B: What do you mean by attraction? [00:18:54] Speaker A: Like, it's like a theme park ride. Like, like people don't want to go and sit in the theater anymore unless they are in. [00:19:00] Speaker B: Oh, so are you saying, like, kind of like. Like Barbenheimer, like, like they're. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Studios are kind of looking for, like, a way to bring more spectacle. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:08] Speaker B: To the theatrical experience. Yeah, I get you. Yeah, that's like, to me, that's just marketing, you know, I feel like, like you can't base a film and it's a film's legitimacy to be in the. In theaters off of how. How well can we make a viral moment? And if studios are doing that, shame, shame. Because that's. That's sad because. Because, you know, you're missing out on so many potential great films that just don't have that super crazy marketing hook, you know, and. And obviously every film needs some good marketing to get out there. But I feel like we've lost the art also of Just what a trailer could do, you know, in terms of marketing, you know what I mean? Like, like we see trailers nowadays and it's just like they, they almost feel like, like I, I feel like I see more often than not a film come out and they'll just drop 10 minutes of the movie because that's how badly they, they, they want you to just come see the movie. They'll just drop 10 minutes of it and it's like, what do I need that for? I, I don't need that. Thank you. Thanks, but no thanks. Like, keep your 10 minutes of your film. Give me a, give me, give me a 30 second teaser. No more, no less. Give me a one to a minute and a half trailer. I don't need a two minute trailer. I don't need a two and a half minute trailer. Shortly after we get the 30 second teaser. That just gives me the bare bones plot, shows me the characters. I don't even necessarily need to see action set pieces. Like, I know that they think that you need this to get people in theaters, but I feel like a precedent just got set and we just, we keep going off of that. But you know something I think about a lot, it's just like if we, if you build it, they'll come, right? They say it all the time. [00:21:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:01] Speaker B: So if we, if we build this up in a way to where this is the standard now, like we're pulling back now. We're not going to show as much in our trailers. We're going to show you just what we feel like you need. People are going to have fomo. People are, we're going to be exercising that muscle of like intrigue in their minds where they're like, like, I want to know more. Like, you know, like, I feel like you don't, like you don't hear people saying like, yeah, I was really, I really wanted to go see that movie, but like, I just have no idea like what the ending's gonna be. You know, they didn't show on the trail. Like, no one says that, you know, like you, you, you just go see it, go see it and get those questions answered for you. And I think that we need to go back and reevaluate how we kind our trailers. How much are we showing in these trailers? Because you hear that criticism time and time again. This was in the trailer. This was in the trailer. I feel like I've seen the whole movie every single time. And it's like, why are, why aren't we learning from that? [00:22:02] Speaker A: That's a good Question. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah, give me the answers. [00:22:06] Speaker A: Why not in the trailer making business? [00:22:08] Speaker B: Why. Why are we doing this to ourselves? [00:22:11] Speaker A: But no, I agree with you. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah, it's annoying. It's annoying. And it's like. I don't know, man. I feel like you look at some of the really good marketing campaigns for some of the best movies that had great marketing campaigns and those things all had something in common where they didn't just tell you everything that was happening in your film, they got creative with it in ways to bring you into the world. The lore of the story of the characters and, you know, and, and try to create intrigue around that. And I think that's how it should be, you know? [00:22:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And that, that's like another good trailer is the Holdovers that came out last year. Like, I remember forget what movie I was going to see, but I was. I saw the trailer in theaters and like, it's. The trailer starts off very like comedic, you know, like, it's like a very. And it's an old school trailer feel because, you know, movies kind of set in the 70s. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:12] Speaker A: And so they're kind of doing that old school trailer where they have a narrator and they're like, oh, you know, I can't remember the names of the characters, but they're like, oh, you know, John is one summer school, three boys. Yeah. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Took a class. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Like, that's one quirky teacher is gonna teach you the ropes. Yeah, yeah, no, I get you. It's like, it is indicative of an older time when like, that's all you needed was a narrator. It's a couple, you know, fun little clips of something happening in the film. And you know, and I think also at that point in time too, I will say that the, like, the aspect of a celebrity, like a Hollywood, like acting celebrity was definitely revered much more and looked at in a more golden light than it is now. Like, you really don't have a lot of stars in that sense, you know, that like, can just hold over on their own to where you, you see them in a film and people just go off of that alone. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're right. It's. There's this modern age of Hollywood is not necessarily bad. I know some directors will say that it's terrible, but I would argue that no, really, age of Hollywood has really been that terrible. They have all given some and added something to pop culture as a whole. You know, I mean, and have made their imprint and certain shows are better than others and you might get better actors, better directors, better movies out of one year out of one decade out compared to another, you know, to me. But yeah, I just. I think that you're right where we have lost something of that. That feel of trailers. Oversharing, maybe, and. Or we've lost the. The point of what a trailer was really meant to be. That being said, going off of that tangent of what marketing of movies and stuff like that, I wanted to kind of get into a little bit of the cast, starting with M. Night's daughter. Who's in it. It's Celica. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Celica. She's in it. She's the. She's like a pop star, singer and. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Lady raven. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah, lady raven. That's it. Thank you. I was like, I know. It's something about a bird. [00:25:42] Speaker B: It's some sort of feathered. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Feathered creature. Birds are mammals, right? Huh? [00:25:49] Speaker B: Is a bird a mammal? [00:25:50] Speaker A: No, no, bird's a bird. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Bird's a bird. Some sort of feathered mammal. What the hell's a feathered mammal? [00:25:57] Speaker A: I don't. I don't think there is a feathered mammal. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Is there a feathered mammal? [00:26:00] Speaker A: I don't think so. I mean, I could be wrong. [00:26:02] Speaker B: I'm not a flying wombat. [00:26:05] Speaker A: No. I mean, even though, I mean. Well, I don't think a wombat can fly anyway. Have you seen a wombat? They're gigantic. They're gigantic rats. [00:26:11] Speaker B: Could you imagine a flying wombat? [00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure it'd be terrifying. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Like one of those creatures from Spy Kids too. [00:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. No crash. [00:26:20] Speaker B: That you're witness. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Mammal. I mean, a flying mammal is. You got flying squirrels. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Bats. But they don't got wings. Or they got wings. They don't got. [00:26:27] Speaker B: That's a mammal. [00:26:28] Speaker A: That is a mammal. But they're not a bird. They don't got feathers. They got hair. [00:26:33] Speaker B: You gotta. Okay, so the qualifier for bird is just feather. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Well, I think there's a little. Like, they. They only birth from eggs. They, you know, fly. They usually. They have feathers. It's not hair. [00:26:52] Speaker B: We're really testing your. Your biology right now. [00:26:54] Speaker A: I. [00:26:55] Speaker B: Your biology. [00:26:55] Speaker A: I think their legs are kind of weird. Their bones are hollow, I believe. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Okay, so you're saying qualifier for bird, feather hatch from egg. Hollow bones. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah, stuff like that. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Okay. Platypus. Platypus has no feather. [00:27:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it does not. [00:27:12] Speaker B: But hatches from egg. [00:27:13] Speaker A: It does. It's the only mammal, one of the only mammals that hatches from eggs. [00:27:17] Speaker B: What other mammal hatches from egg? [00:27:19] Speaker A: I don't. I saw it somewhere, but I don't remember. I It might. I might even be wrong. But is that platypus is definitely hatches. [00:27:25] Speaker B: From eggs, but is mammal. [00:27:27] Speaker A: But is a mammal. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Not bird. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Is not. They say that platypus. [00:27:31] Speaker B: They don't have feathers. [00:27:32] Speaker A: One of the older ostrich. That's a. That's bird. [00:27:36] Speaker B: Big bird. [00:27:36] Speaker A: It is Big bird. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Is Big Bird an ostrich? [00:27:41] Speaker A: I don't know. I think Big Bird. [00:27:44] Speaker B: What is Big Bird? [00:27:45] Speaker A: Just a woman in a suit. [00:27:48] Speaker B: I don't think Big Bird is a woman. [00:27:50] Speaker A: It is a woman. I think the Big Bird themselves is a. Is supposed to be a man, to. [00:27:56] Speaker B: My knowledge, but they can be whatever they want to be. [00:27:59] Speaker A: They can't. It's a gigantic bird. But the person who is puppeting the suit is a woman in there. It's like an old woman. I don't know if she's still alive or working. [00:28:08] Speaker B: But the big bird, it's got me an ostrich. Right? [00:28:11] Speaker A: I can see it. Yeah, yeah. But it's. It's feathery. It's more feathery than ostrich. [00:28:18] Speaker B: I think Big Bird should have been in this movie. [00:28:21] Speaker A: I think we need to move on. Celica, she plays Lady Raven. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yes, Celica. She's Lady Raven in the film. [00:28:30] Speaker A: She made all of the music for the film. Film. [00:28:32] Speaker B: She did? [00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I thought. [00:28:34] Speaker B: How do you feel about that music? [00:28:35] Speaker A: I didn't mind it. [00:28:37] Speaker B: You liked it? [00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was decent. [00:28:38] Speaker B: Did you enjoy it? [00:28:39] Speaker A: Yeah. What? I remember. [00:28:41] Speaker B: Put it on your Spotify list. [00:28:42] Speaker A: I. I don't have Spotify, but. Okay, so you don't like it, then maybe Jada would. My. Maybe my side of this one. I don't know. I. I really. I. I don't know. [00:28:53] Speaker B: I would. Yeah, it wasn't bad. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't. Like. I said, I don't think it was bad at all. It was cool. Pretty. Pretty unique. [00:29:00] Speaker B: If she came to Columbus and there was a show and it wasn't super expensive, I'd go. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Oh, if she did. [00:29:05] Speaker B: If she did. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:06] Speaker B: For sure. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah. I think she tour. [00:29:08] Speaker B: She did, apparently, with Givion. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Really? [00:29:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is pretty cool. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:29:14] Speaker A: No, I thought that was really cool. [00:29:16] Speaker B: How'd you feel about being like her overall inclusion in this film as Lady Raven? [00:29:22] Speaker A: I thought it was fine. I think she was a pretty much the third main character. So. Yeah, it made sense for, like. [00:29:30] Speaker B: It makes sense because it's obviously the kind of direction that Shawn's trying to go. Like, he really wants to help out his kids. Which is. Which is. Which is fine. And Dandy. I don't know, man. I think as a greater whole for a film like this, because, like, whenever I watch films, I always think of, is this the best version of this film that I can envision in my head while I watch it? And that's usually kind of like the groundwork for how I will start to judge and rate films while I'm watching them. And for me, when I was watching the film, I was kind of thinking a lot of the times, like, you know, I feel like in within this film, there is a very different cut that doesn't center so much around Celica's performance as Lady Raven. And maybe that film would have been a bit better. And it's not because of her talent as a singer or her talent as an actress, but as we get more into the spoilers of this film, you'll find that, like, they're just some of the plot points of where we went with Lady Raven just starts to kind of, like, make certain things not add up. And that's where I kind of think about the film as a whole. And I go, maybe. Maybe if we would have went a slightly different direction, maybe then we wouldn't run into. Well, I know it wouldn't even be. Maybe we wouldn't run into these problems because we would probably have different problems, but maybe we could have solved those ones better. I don't know. [00:31:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't disagree. I think that there was a different cut. Like, I was watching somebody talk about it on YouTube and, like, there's stuff in the trailer that does not appear in to the movie. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Oh, well, that's always. And I don't mean necessarily that. That is that maybe, like. I'm not saying, like, oh, release the. The Shyamalan cut. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying more so, like. Like, in another timeline, you know, different choices were made for this film as a whole in terms of its direction, writing, and where they wanted to go with it, you know, because like we were saying earlier, like, Shyamalan definitely has a very specific and unique vision for his films, and he ferociously goes after that. And that's very clear here. He had a very clear vision of a film about a man who wants to escape a concert that he's at with his daughter, while he is also, you know, the subject of a manhunt for being this notorious serial killer. All the while a Taylor Swift Eras Torus type concert is happening. And that is like, not just the backdrop, but also the. It's kind of integral to the entire plot of the film and the major set pieces of the film, you know, and like, that's a really crazy idea and you gotta applaud the guy for really going after that, you know, But I do feel like at certain points that that really interesting idea does come to head with the plot and then they will clash. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, what do you. So would you say her performance was good or just okay or was like. [00:32:43] Speaker B: Eh, I thought it was good. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:46] Speaker B: You know, like, I like. And when I say good, I'm not saying like, oh, yeah, like best acting performance I've ever seen or anything like that. I don't think that she, like, that was the role that was given, you know, I don't think that her task wasn't to have this, like, crazy Oscar level performance. And I think she was fine for. For the role that she played. And I don't think that she overacted. I don't necessarily think that she under acted. I think that people still have a lot of. A lot to say about Shyamalan's written dialogue, and I definitely get those criticisms. I definitely do. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker B: I've seen people who have tried to combat, at least for this film, that criticism by saying, like, yeah, but it makes sense because, you know, Cooper the serial killer is like, you know, masquerading as this, like, guy who has it all together, but really he's a psychopath. And when I heard people having that criticism or not criticism, but that pushback against the criticism, it made me kind of think, yeah, well, I get what you're saying, but pretty much everybody talks like that in this film. So it's not. I feel like it's not that much of a intentional choice for just him when everyone else is also kind of having this interesting kind of quirky dialogue. But again, we. If we know what. What to expect with Shyamalan and we know that this is kind of what he does does, and this is how he writes his characters, then, you know, what. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna say? Like, that's. That is what it is, you know, and it's like you either really like it or you really don't. He is an auteur. People will write their characters how they. They are known to write them. Think about Wes Anderson. Same thing. [00:34:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:34:37] Speaker B: Almost every Wes Anderson film, and I've never seen a single one, but I've seen clips of all of them and they all sound the same. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:45] Speaker B: And I don't just mean sonically in terms of sound design, but I mean, with dialogue. He writes his dialogue a certain way. You can find. Excuse me, you can find that with other people. Christopher Nolan, even the way that Christopher Nolan. His. His dialogue is always so kind of like methodical and like it always feels like every character is playing chess with the other character while they're talking. You know what I mean? Like, it's. And even just simple conversations, it's like a. It's like. It's always like a verbal tug of war back and forth with his characters while they're talking with each other. And it's just very electrifying to watch on screen, even though sometimes you have zero clue what they're really talking about because it's just like these super big brain ideas. But it's fun, you know. And it's a similar thing with Shyamalan. He has a way of writing his character's dialogue. Like, is it my favorite kind of dialogue written? No, I. I wish that, like my thing with. That I love about Shyamalan's movies and we keep on saying this is like the way that he. He just wholeheartedly throws himself into his films. He is very creative. I love that. Like, he is very creative. He is very innovative and has some really awesome ideas. I would love to, if. If I ever got the chance to work with him and. And like co. Write something with him. I feel like I like, like that would be a really good experience because, like, I like when I write things and I write short stories and screenplays, I'm. I'm very interested in characters. I love to dissect and take apart who a person is, what makes them who they are, and to try to find ways to showcase that and show. Show the audience that through different. Different ways. I feel like a lot of his films lack that. There's not a lot of characterization in his films, you know? And like, because you can't really. In his films, you can't really say like. Like there's not key characters that you can go, yeah. And that character was so memorable because of xyz outside of the I see dead people kid. Because he said, I see dead people or Bruce Willis in his films. Because he's Bruce Willis. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Right? [00:36:55] Speaker B: You know what I mean? But like, you can, you can, you can take. You can probably say like Wes Anderson. People love the hotel manager guy, Ralph Fine's character, you know, probably because of like how he was dressed, his mannerisms, how he talked, like, whatever it was like you. You know, like you. You have other, other auteurs that, that do focus a Lot more on characterization that you can find those characters in their work that. That stand out to you, you know, because of how they were written. And just like, they're just a fully fleshed person. You can even say something like a character like Thanos. You know, I know we're now we're going a bit more into, like, Marvel territory or whatever, but, like, you know, superhero film, but the writing still holds up. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:42] Speaker B: That character, when. When he got under the hands of the Russo brothers was characterized so well that he's just. He's not memorable just because he did the snap. He's memorable for just his presence, the way he spoke, his ideologies, you know, how he faced his adversaries, how he. How he, you know, faced his defeat. Like, all that. Like, it all encapsulates this very memorable character. Thanos will forever be just solidified in, like, the superhero. Like, the movie superhero pantheon will forever be there. You know, we want, like, I would. I would love to have Shyamalan have character like that in. In his films. I'd love to see that because I feel like that's. That. I feel like that's a big missing piece from his filmography. You know, he's got the crazy ideas. Yeah, they're always crazy. They're always entertaining. They're all. They're always enjoyable to watch. He needs to get the characters. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you feel like you get that and with another. This is not about trap. Do you feel like you get that with. With Knock at the Cabin, or do you feel like that, like, is him heading in that direction, close? That's what I. That's. [00:38:58] Speaker B: It felt. It felt. That's what. That's why that I got. I felt so drawn to that film right off a trailer wise, because I was like, I like these characters. But again, he doesn't take it fully there because the film isn't. It wasn't entirely about that family so much as, you know, more. So he has this idea that he wants to present and he wants to get your opinion on it as the viewer while you watch, after you watch, you know, so it wasn't. It wasn't a full character piece, you know, like, the Joker is a character piece through and through. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker B: You know, like that. That wasn't necessarily like a character piece. And I would be very interested to see what a film like that would look through his eyes. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Just going back to the cast, which is funny, I said Justin earlier, but in my later notes, I put Josh. [00:39:55] Speaker B: So you really wanted his name to be Justin? [00:39:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I Don't know why I said Justin. Josh Hartnett, you know, he's playing Cooper. He's playing the serial killer. [00:40:05] Speaker B: He was also an Oppenheimer. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. I didn't realize at first. He was also in Halloween H2O. [00:40:10] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:40:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he's super young in that, but. [00:40:12] Speaker B: I haven't seen that movie in years. [00:40:14] Speaker A: Yeah, he's the, he's the main kid. He's Jennifer, not Jennifer Lawrence. Jamie Curtis's son. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:40:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Shout out, Josh. [00:40:25] Speaker A: So how did you feel like he did and his role as the, the patriarch serial killer? [00:40:32] Speaker B: Man, I feel like he did pretty good. I, I think when I first was. When I, When I was watching it at first, I kept thinking about his character and I was thinking like, man, you know, I feel like, like Finn Whitrock would have been really good in this role, but I think that's. That, that would have been an entirely different movie because those are like my initial thoughts. Like just kind of going in first, like 20 minutes as the movie went on. Then I got to really sit with the character and sit with just kind of the premise of the film. And then I, you know, I bought into it more. I was like, okay. No, I think that for this version of this film, yeah, he's the guy. He plays this character very well. There was always these, like, really funny moments where, you know, you could just kind of like see the psycho in his eyes. [00:41:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:22] Speaker B: While he's smiling at people. You know, or you're just like, is this man about the snap? Because, yeah, he looked like he's about to snap and people are trying him and they need to stop. That's, you know, and he, and he played that really well. So. No, I think he did great. [00:41:37] Speaker A: What, what was this? My. This is kind of a little bit of spill it Store a little bit. There's a little bit of spoiler territory to an extent. But what was, what was your favorite? [00:41:48] Speaker B: I mean, it's a, It's a podcast. If you're not here for the spoil, you're in the wrong place, buddy. [00:41:54] Speaker A: That's. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Sorry about it. [00:41:55] Speaker A: We're also kind of like a couple more than 30 minutes in. Probably. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Probably. [00:42:00] Speaker A: But what was your favorite exit plan that he had? [00:42:07] Speaker B: Like, oh my God. [00:42:11] Speaker A: Dude. [00:42:13] Speaker B: With the freaking. When the dude came out the frickin floor and he turned over to his daughter and said, hey, hey, I got an idea. Why don't we go down there and see. See what's down there. [00:42:25] Speaker A: That's. Yes. That was. [00:42:26] Speaker B: I was like, I looked over at Olivia. And we both just went, huh? Like, dude, you sound goofy. What do we do? Not to mention, ain't no way. Ain't no way in no concert venue is there just going to be a trap door in the middle of the floor where people are just all standing. Hello, Health hazard, safety hazard. What? They trying to get sued? But anyway, I thought that was so funny, and I almost really wanted her to be just like, oh, yeah, sure, dad. Even though it would have made no sense, because I just kind of wanted to see what was down there. I was. I was hoping that we'd get some, like, random, like, chase them through the tunnels of the building kind of thing, you know, because it was just so, like, it was so random and goofy, and I was like, what is. What even is down there? Why would you say that? You're not. No one's going down there, you psycho. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that was. That was one of my favorites, too, of like. Like, him being like, oh, like, let's go down there. Like, it's so interesting. [00:43:33] Speaker B: Like, it'd be so fun if that was my dad. I'd be like, dude, shut up. I'm trying to watch this concert right now, dude. [00:43:39] Speaker A: And he's, like, trying to explain that to his, like, daughter, who's, like, most likely in junior high, if not high school. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And it's like, she's like, that might work if your kid was, like, five, right? [00:43:50] Speaker B: She's looking. I'm like, you're acting weird. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so that one was funny. I also like the. The scene where, you know, he has kidnapped Celica now, and people are. Literally everybody is surrounding the whole car, and then magically he appears on the outside. [00:44:09] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:44:11] Speaker A: Like, no one saw him get out. [00:44:13] Speaker B: That. That one. That one grinded my gears. That was my. That was my. I got a couple gripes. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Okay, Shoot them now. [00:44:20] Speaker B: You want me to just fight Rapid fire these gripes. [00:44:21] Speaker A: Rapid fire the gripes. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Godly. All right, sorry, Listen, I feel like we. We. We glazed. We glazed Shyamalan a little bit, right? We. We gave him some praise. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:44:30] Speaker B: We gave him some praise. [00:44:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:44:32] Speaker B: Okay, I've. I've. I've had a couple sips of my. Of my sippy do. I'm gonna take another one. [00:44:38] Speaker A: You know what? Here, I'll. I'll join you. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Join me. Please join me. I have ice in my mouth. One more. One more for posterity. Okay. [00:44:48] Speaker A: That's how I feel. Like, you. I. Like, I feel like I did get majority of it because my cup has no ice anymore. Oh, no. I feel like you set me up. [00:44:58] Speaker B: I might have set you up for failure. I'm sorry, dude. Anyways, go ahead, listen. All right, so Shyamalan, if you're listening, I doubt you will be. We thank you for all that you do. We, we seriously do. You're. You, you are an autore, and a pretty good one. You know, not many people are doing it like you. So just letting you know right now, for the next 15 to 20 minutes maybe, depending on how long this takes, we're gonna get into some gripes. We need, we need like, we need, like I need to, I need to get, get our soundboard together so I can start like having sounds go off when it's, when it's time for different segments of the show. This is, this is Marques's gripes. Yeah, so imagine game showy noises happening right now, like the Price is Right. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Bling. Bling. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Exactly. So for, for first, first gripe. What was the thing that you brought up before? That's what I was gonna. [00:46:01] Speaker A: He was leaving. Okay. [00:46:02] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:46:04] Speaker A: The car. And there's a full crowd surrounding. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Yes. All right. Now this man had on SWAT gear. He somehow managed to off screen kill or subdue SWAT man, which like. All right, if, if we got serial killer guy on the loose. I don't think that if, if, if the SWAT team knows that civilians are out of the house, they're shooting on site. I'm sorry, like, maybe not shoot to kill, but they're shooting. Like you're not getting the jump on SWAT team guy. Like you just can't, you know, like, especially if civilians are out of the house and, and they're going in, guns up, ready, ready to go, but he gets to jump on them. Cool, whatever. You know, we need that for thematic purposes. I get it. He's, he's in the car now driving them away. Which for one, I, I always struggled to, to understand why Lady Raven didn't have more security. As big of a star as she was, you know, like you think Taylor Swift's getting just. They're letting Taylor Swift just leave any concert venue with. [00:47:06] Speaker A: There'd probably be at least one other. [00:47:07] Speaker B: With any Joe Schmo. Yeah, she got no entourage, no family. She's got the driver guy. So that, that, that was a little, a little gripe too. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Well, M. Night was filming. He couldn't be in the. [00:47:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but she could have had other family, her other sister. [00:47:24] Speaker A: That's true. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Yeah, she could have showed up. [00:47:26] Speaker A: That's true. [00:47:27] Speaker B: But anyway, so, so, so, okay. But anyway, driving the car Driving away with the kids. They get surrounded by a bunch of. A bunch of fans. They don't put the window lock on the window, which I thought was funny. No window lock in the window, you crazy, super smart serial killer. But you forgot to. Forgot the child lock, dude. Come on. On the door and the window. So. So Lady Raven gets out. Okay, cool. And I feel like this girl also had, like, very little sense of self preservation throughout this film. Like, you're in the presence of the Butcher. Like, the Butcher. Like, that's a. Yeah. Anybody whose name is the Butcher, I'm steering clear of. [00:48:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:10] Speaker B: You know, and. And you're. You're like, actively really trying to get him, like, caught. No, I'm out of there, dude. Get me out of there. I'm gonna call the police. Let them handle it. But I'm not gonna play Bruce Wayne and try to, you know, get like, vigilante my way through this. That. That I thought was crazy. But the guy gets out of the car somehow in the crowd of all these Lady Raven fans. After Lady Raven had just not too long ago did a live stream, like, asking her fans to help find this man. So you would think that the fans are gonna know what this butcher guy looks like at this point, or at least be skeptical as to who the guy is getting out of the car in a SWAT gear, who then somehow gets out of the car in SWAT gear, is able to swap clothes and blend into the crowd, all in the matter of like 30 seconds or so. [00:49:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm pretty sure everybody has their cell phones out too. [00:49:08] Speaker B: So that. That one was like, whoa, you're asking me to really believe a lot here, but okay, movies. Got a movie sometime? They do. We gotta, you know, have. Have a bit of suspension of disbelief. I get it. I get it. So I want to rewind back to before we even got to that point, when Cooper decided to tell Lady Raven that he was the Butcher. I thought that was kind of wild. Like, why would you tell her that? She doesn't need to know that. I feel like you would have been able to get her out of there with just different smarts. But okay, you know, that was just a choice. But the choice that I. That really gives me the gripe was when he says to her, you know, you gotta get me out of here, or I'm gonna kill this guy you've never met before. And then Lady Raven then proceeds to be like, you know what? Yep, I will get you out of here so you don't kill this man that I've never Met before. Why do you care about this man? Well, no, you don't know him. [00:50:14] Speaker A: I know I don't know this. [00:50:15] Speaker B: The Butcher. You telling me in real life. In real life, dog. In real life. Well, I wouldn't want him presented with die. How? He doesn't have any weapons. [00:50:25] Speaker A: Well, he said, he said it was hooked up with, like, carbon monoxide. [00:50:28] Speaker B: No. On him to get you. You know what I mean? And your security and SWAT is right out there. So in actuality, you have all the power. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Oh, oh. [00:50:37] Speaker B: In actuality, you. All you got to do is be like, okay, help. [00:50:40] Speaker A: He's in here. [00:50:42] Speaker B: And then all of a sudden, dude, he was in a room. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what. [00:50:46] Speaker B: You're swarmed. [00:50:47] Speaker A: That's fair. Yeah. [00:50:48] Speaker B: No, that, you know, so I, I, I was struggling at that point because I was just like, why would Lady Raven help him? Right. [00:50:53] Speaker A: He got a pocket knife or even. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Like, you could pretend to help. And then as soon as you get by the SWAT team that's right outside the door, you know, run in their arms. Run. Run behind them like, he's right there. That's the guy. And yeah, and it's over. [00:51:06] Speaker A: He's done. That's true. [00:51:08] Speaker B: But I get it. Movies got a movie, movie's got a movie. So we look past that. We move forward. Last major gripe. There's. There's also, there's also like little, Little, Little small ones, I would say. Okay, I'll. I'll really rapid fire the little small ones. And before I get into the bigger one, that, that kind of bothered me. The inhaler. She takes a puff of the inhaler when she's backstage, and Cooper sees her do that. And that didn't come to play, really, later. At least I thought so until the. I think it was towards the end when you kind of get revealed that, like, a lot of his motives for killing or his triggers for killing is because he, he doesn't like imperfect people. Which is a bit, A bit shaky. [00:51:59] Speaker A: I didn't pick up on it. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is a bit shaky of a foundation for a motive of killing when you're, you're triggered by a girl having asthma. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:12] Speaker B: You know, like, but okay, cool. Movies. Movies in a movie. I guess the other one I didn't understand. There were cameras everywhere, and no one, no one checking these cameras and seeing this. This crazy white man doing these crazy things. The be acting suspicious. Even if you don't catch him in the ad, he is being mad suspicious. He's looking at cameras, he's smiling Around. He kicked some girl or. Or pushed some older woman down the steps. [00:52:44] Speaker A: He did do that. [00:52:45] Speaker B: Blew up a fryer with oil. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:49] Speaker B: And I'm like, all these things, like if. If y'all got the SWAT FBI up in here and none of you guys catch him do any of this. [00:52:57] Speaker A: But he knew the secret password. [00:52:59] Speaker B: He did know the secret password. [00:53:00] Speaker A: And he talked to M. Night, who was cameoed in there, who. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Who helped him. I know. [00:53:05] Speaker A: He literally moved the story. He moved the plot himself. [00:53:08] Speaker B: He really did. He really came in and said, here, sir, I got you. I'll take you down the random tunnel. [00:53:14] Speaker A: Hold my hand. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Hold my hand, sir. No, but he didn't take him down the tunnel. He should have, though. That would have been fun. So the other one was the random appearances of his mom as like, a ghosty thing. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:31] Speaker B: And that's where I say stuff like. Like I feel like there's a different version of this movie in a different timeline, you know, because, like. Like, yeah, you could have really leaned into the. The psychological aspect of. Of this, but, you know, there. There wasn't enough time to do that in this film. You would have had to really take away time from other things to devote to doing that. But it was interesting that they put it in there. [00:53:58] Speaker A: Those. [00:53:59] Speaker B: They sprinkled it those. In those little moments. But it never really amounted to anything, like, substantial. It was just kind of. Yeah. And he's, you know, he's psycho and he's got, like. You can just infer like, that certain crazy people sometimes have little visions of people that they know, and that was just kind of it, which is like, okay, cool. But it's just like, it leaves you wanting more. Like you just kind of want a bit more from it. But my big, major gripe, though, came from this FBI lady because she felt a lot to me like Loomis. Like Dr. Loomis. [00:54:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:38] Speaker B: While watching, and I kept saying that. I was just like, this feels like Dr. Loomis. But she's definitely not getting the same amount of shine as Dr. Loomis would get, you know, like. Because, like, Dr. Loomis was. Was Michael's major adversary and in some instances, his, like, friend, you know, like, he. He was his psychiatrist that was with him from a child to an adult. So he had a lot of stake in Michael. Michael's well being. He didn't want to see Michael hurt or Michael hurt others. And sometimes that put him in harm's way. So that made him a compelling character. You know, this doctor lady. I'll go back out to my notes, we'll find her name, Dr. Josephine Grant, which is like that. That was the thing that made me think Dr. Loomis as well, is because instead of just having her be Special Agent Grant, you know, it was Dr. Josephine Grant. So my mind instantly goes to Dr. Loomis, because Dr. Loomis was a psychiatric doctor to a serial killer, and here is a serial killer, and the person who is sort of pitted against him is also doctor. So it's like, I feel like it was pretty easy to make that connection. [00:55:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:00] Speaker B: So then it made me expect the film to go a certain way, and then it just never did. She was never at the forefront of his capture or his arrest. She was very underutilized, in my opinion. And I feel like, again, like another version of this film would have maybe seen those two play a real. A real interesting game of cat and mouse throughout that entire sequence of being at this. This concert. And. And maybe that would have been really, really good, really cool. So I. That was my big, major gripe. There was just. We had this character. We set her up to be a Dr. Loomis type, and she ended up really being like, third string, you know? [00:56:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:43] Speaker B: In. In this film. [00:56:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I can see that. I. I think that, you know, I. I didn't think you, like. I didn't think much of her other than that she's just some FBI person, you know, coming to stop the Butcher. But, you know, now that you pointed out, it does feel like maybe he was going to write more for her and then he just didn't. You know what I mean? I do want to talk about. After your. Your mini of gripes. I do want to talk about the best character in the entire film. The best cameo character also was. Was Kid. [00:57:24] Speaker B: Oh, God. Why did I know you were gonna say that? [00:57:27] Speaker A: The thinker man, the thing. [00:57:29] Speaker B: Cudi. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:30] Speaker B: You're crazy. [00:57:32] Speaker A: No, I thought he was funny. [00:57:33] Speaker B: You're not gonna say Russ? [00:57:35] Speaker A: Which one was Russ again? Was it Russ? [00:57:39] Speaker B: Put some respect on his name, man. God. There's a guy before. Before him, the other singer, rapper. [00:57:46] Speaker A: Oh, I don't even know who that guy is. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Now. Are you serious? [00:57:53] Speaker A: I'm being honest. [00:57:54] Speaker B: You know who Russ is? [00:57:55] Speaker A: Well, name a song. [00:57:56] Speaker B: Falling in love now. [00:57:58] Speaker A: Oh, Losing control. Oh, I didn't know that was him. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Jesus Christ. [00:58:03] Speaker A: I didn't. I honestly, I didn't know. I didn't know. But, yeah, Kid Cudi was in this movie. I was like. I literally. I saw him. I was like, is that Kid Cudi? [00:58:15] Speaker B: Who let him put that wig on? [00:58:17] Speaker A: I don't know. I asked that, but I thought it was work. [00:58:19] Speaker B: I need to talk to the costume department. [00:58:21] Speaker A: I thought it was working. [00:58:22] Speaker B: You thought it was working? [00:58:23] Speaker A: Yeah, man. He was making it. [00:58:25] Speaker B: It was so random. He just. [00:58:26] Speaker A: It was. [00:58:26] Speaker B: He literally just came in, flirted with Josh, and then dipped. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:31] Speaker B: Okay. I mean, he performed, but, like, yeah, he performed. The way that. That. That M. Night wanted to film this film was that he. He said that you'll. You, as the audience will only ever get close to the stage in the performance as the characters do. Which again, goes back to, like, man's an auteur. Creative, innovative. Love that. Super cool. You know? So, like, we didn't really get to see a lot of his performance because Cooper wasn't really around during the Thinker's performance. I think he. He was either backstage or he was doing something else outside of the actor arena. So. Yeah, so it's like. I don't know. It was a. He just kind of came into his little song, flirted with Cooper backstage, and then dipped. [00:59:17] Speaker A: I do want to also. It. I do. You know about Josh's and Kid Cudi's friendship? [00:59:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I learned about that. [00:59:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny. [00:59:26] Speaker B: They met in. And it's funny, too, when you think about the fact that he was there at a Rat Attack concert and Kid Cudi performed with that. Because obviously, famously, Kid Cudi's Pursuit of Happiness is produced by Rat Attack. Kid Cudi featuring Rat Attack, Pursuit of Happiness. So I'm sure he performed that there. And that's where they met, and he asked him to, like, be his friend or if he wanted to be friends, and that, like, started their friendship. So it, like, it makes sense in a funny, meta way why he's, like, flirting with him. But thematically, yeah, it doesn't make sense. [01:00:05] Speaker A: No, I agree. But I don't know. I thought it was fun, and I just learned about their friendship. I kind of was like, do you think that that's why he got put into the movie? Or you think that that's just. I don't know, maybe because, like, they. I guess they've been friends for a while and, like. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's not. It's not Josh's movie. It's. It's, you know, M Night's movie. [01:00:24] Speaker A: But I'm sure, like, he could be like, hey, like, I know. [01:00:27] Speaker B: I feel like it was probably a coincidence. [01:00:29] Speaker A: You think so? [01:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's probably just coincidence that they're just, you know, they're friends. But they're, you know, together on a film. Yeah. [01:00:38] Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe it's not. Maybe that was the twist. [01:00:42] Speaker B: Maybe this was his pursuit of happiness. [01:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:44] Speaker B: This is where he wanted to be all along. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah. It was a guy named the Thinker. With blonde hair. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Long, long golden locks. [01:00:52] Speaker B: Maybe he'll be fine. [01:00:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:54] Speaker B: Once he gets it, maybe he'll be. [01:00:56] Speaker A: Maybe he'll die at Rose. Golden Rose. Now, Now I'm confusing myself. Anyways. Anyways. Yeah. I mean, this movie was, wasn't terrible. It was, Wasn't like, great. [01:01:22] Speaker B: That's how you feel. [01:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Felt like it was just okay. Like, there's some things that I think could have been better. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:30] Speaker A: You know, I, I, I was interested in the con. Some of the stuff at the concert, I kind of felt, like, different about mixture of that. But I felt like the concert was the most intriguing. [01:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, the concert was, was actually pretty cool. Would I maybe enjoyed a film that centered more around the killer than the concert? Maybe. [01:01:56] Speaker A: Yeah. But that wasn't really how the movie really was. Like, the movie was more so about him trying to get out of the concert, you know? [01:02:03] Speaker B: Right. But they were, like, doing. They were like live performing throughout that production. [01:02:09] Speaker A: Yes. [01:02:10] Speaker B: And getting, like live crowd reactions, actual background actors filling that stadium up, which is incredible. [01:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:19] Speaker B: Throw that out there. That's also incredible. You don't see that a lot nowadays. [01:02:23] Speaker A: No cgi. [01:02:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Which, like, you know, like, it's really cool when you see movies that have just tons of extras in them. [01:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Mean, it just shows the, the authenticity of the film, which I, I do appreciate. Yeah. I mean, the concert, concert was probably the most interesting. The home sequence, to me, I felt like, got really goofy. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Yeah. How do you feel about the, like, the three different endings this film had? Because this film ended three different times. [01:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it did. [01:02:55] Speaker B: You know, it, it was like when he, when he got out, that could have been the ending. And you're like, oh, man, he's out now. Yeah. I thought he was just gonna hop out the car and dip, roll credits, you know, and then it could have ended again when he got out the second time. And then it had. [01:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the final true ending is like kind of like the most rememberable to. Just because, like the other two endings kind of just like he escaped. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it wasn't like a very memorable escape because they're not the true ending. You know, going back to Halloween, like the original Halloween, you know, they shoot Michael and he falls out and, like, oh, you know, falls out the window and he's laying and Loomis goes to look, and then, like, I think he might look a second time, and then he's gone, you know, and, you know, that classic, you know, like, music comes on and, like, they're just panning throughout the different streets, you know, like, if they would have done something like that, you know, maybe if. I don't know, maybe if he would have went down the rabbit hole of, you know, going down the stairs, you know, and him escaping that way somehow. Like, they could have just been panning to different, you know, sections of the crowd. Like, that would have been kind of interesting, I think, or something like that. But he just escapes. There's nothing really rememberable about it. Just is more plot to be set up to going to the next part of the film. [01:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. And that's also where, again, I throw in the question of, is there a world where we could have the premise of this film and more characterization of that killer? You know, Because I kept thinking about while watching and I was like, man, I feel like it would. It would be, honestly, a bit interesting and cool because obviously Shyamalan wanted us to. To kind of feel like we were in the killer's perspective, like his POV a lot of times, and how they shot it, you know, and how it was directed. But I kept thinking, too. I was like, well, why don't we. Why couldn't we have pushed this even a step further? Further and almost had this be like. Like, imagine Sherlock Holmes, like Robert Downey Sherlock Holmes, but he's a serial killer. Where, like, we're. We're even getting voiceover of this guy. He's chatting. He's chatting and he's telling us, the audience, like, why he's about to do what he's about to do and. And going through the. The. You know, or like. Like. Like a more. A more recent example, Joe Goldberg from. You take that character, put him here in this scenario. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Well, it works. I think that the music was supposed to be more of, like, written in a way that was supposed to be his thoughts. And I think maybe Sean Long was trying to do that, but I feel like I don't pick up on that aspect of that until I heard that too. [01:06:02] Speaker B: But I didn't catch that while listening to it because it. I guess it just didn't really translate well in that way. Like, I just. I wasn't listening for it. You know, I didn't. [01:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:11] Speaker B: Exactly know that I needed to. I kind of was. Because I guess I was looking for other things within the film. [01:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:18] Speaker B: But. Yeah, so I get, you know, I. Going on what you're saying. Yeah. I guess maybe that was his way of doing that, and maybe you could have still kept it in. In that way. [01:06:27] Speaker A: But I do feel like a little extra something. [01:06:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Like maybe taking it that. To, you know, that step further to really getting us, like, actually inside this guy's mind. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Maybe if he would have called out, like, a lyric from it, maybe he'd be like, I gotta get. I can't remember a song, but, like, I do gotta get free. Like, you know, like, I need to get out of here. [01:06:45] Speaker B: Right. And I think that, like, if this character was Joe Goldberg from you, then he definitely would. Would, because that's like, how that character is. And I'm not saying we need to copy paste that guy here, but it's just like. I'm just having that thought of, like, the same kind of methodicalness that Sherlock Holmes had with, like, how the narrative style of Joe from you and then put him, you know, in this character of Cooper. I feel like that would have really just added more characterization to this character who just kind of lacked a bit of that. You know, like, we had. We had to give him characterization in other ways that I just don't think landed 100% the landing how it could have, you know, because it's like, yeah, he's got this, like, dark past, I guess, with mom, and, you know, like, he's got a family. So we can, like, infer things from that. Alison Pill's character, who I will say also was underutilized here, you know, is like, obviously in love with this man or was. So, like, there's got to be a reason for that, you know, So I feel like there was just a good amount of, like, inferring and there were threads, but these threads didn't really connect in the way that they should. [01:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it almost feels like if this was made into a miniseries, it probably would have been a lot more interesting, maybe a lot more fleshed out characters. [01:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's definitely. That's definitely a thought. Because then. Because then. Because then what that then forces you to do is if it was a miniseries, then it really has to become a character study. You know, now you do have to make it revolve around this seemingly okay, father husband who is actually a serial killer. And yeah, like, then, you know, then. Then it really does kind of start to feel a bit more almost like that show you. But it's a different premise because it's like he's a father, he's got, you know, a daughter and a son and he's, and he's a husband and he's very acclimated. And then you would get to kind of see like, how does this guy, you know, assimilate into, into everyday life? How do we see him? Like, where are the cracks in his arm and where are the cracks in his personality? Like, and then you could really kind of flesh that out over episodes of time. [01:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:25] Speaker B: Excuse me. And then like boil that up to like a good two part finale. [01:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. [01:09:34] Speaker B: You know, and that two part finale being the concert and subsequently the. [01:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Inevitable arrest, you would hope. Yes. [01:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. [01:09:45] Speaker B: So I'm with you. I can see that. [01:09:48] Speaker A: But yeah, that's all I kind of had for this. I don't have much. Any more notes on this. [01:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying, I'm looking at my notes as well. Some small things that we didn't really touch upon. Did you know that he apparently Shyamalan originally planned to shoot this in 4:3 aspect ratio. [01:10:09] Speaker A: No, I didn't know that. [01:10:10] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what, you know what the 43 is? Yeah. With the, the letter boxes on the side. [01:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:14] Speaker B: Left and right. [01:10:16] Speaker A: And I thought that that would have been interesting. [01:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I think, I think that he, his, his reasoning for that was probably thinking more that that could make us feel as the audience more trapped, you know, because it's like you're, you're, you're limiting a lot of space on the frame. So I can see, I can see that. That was definitely an interesting choice. I do think that having it be. He ended up going with 1.8 85 1, which is just kind of. I think I, I think that that's IMAX framing. I could be wrong, but I think that's IMAX framing. But it's just to like the, the naked eye, like normal regular people like it. It shouldn't just look like any, any other movie. So he just went with, we can just say for all to the purposes, like regular framing. But yeah, I thought that was interesting that he thought about doing that. The other thing is he extensively storyboarded this and apparently that's how he films a lot of his movies is he wants to kind of get the shots, all the shots together before even being on set. Like how the film is going to lay out. Like even in the editing bay, which is not typically how movies are filmed. [01:11:28] Speaker A: Like. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah, you can storyboard. Like all films usually get storyboarded beforehand, but on Day of like you're. You're getting a lot of coverage. You know, you're getting your wise, you're getting your mids, you're getting your closes, your answer. It's your B roll, like all that. And then you get into the editing bay and the editors sit there with all this footage and they craft them the best version of that scene with all that footage. He's trying to kind of get the edit in camera, per se. [01:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:58] Speaker B: Which is, which is a way to do it. Yeah. I think it would save some time. And it's. But it, you know, and it's also. And like, I think like that that also is part of the magic of him as well as he kind of wants to capture that movie magic in a bottle every time of just like this movie is what it. What it is. And I think he's not. He's not trying to stress himself out with like, trying to have like this most perfect, pristine version of. Of a film, which is commendable. You know, I feel like that definitely should take a lot of stress off of the filmmaker, and I hope it does because, you know, I know that it can be stressful to have to think and worry about so much, you know, as the writer, director. But I thought that was cool learning about the storyboarding aspect of this one last thing and then we can wrap up here. You know, this film was based around an actual real life sting. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I was. I was thinking about maybe mentioning it, but I just didn't like. [01:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So apparently there was a real life sting in 1985 called Operation Flagship where the FBI had maybe a hundred some wanted criminals and fugitives. And they tried to invite them all to one location to. For the potential of them getting free tickets to an NFL game. [01:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:20] Speaker B: Which is crazy. And I. And I was watching a video of some of the people that were like, that were in on this and whatnot. And they were talking about how they like, they named certain aspects of like around this fake event. Like it was like stupid things like. [01:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:39] Speaker B: Like wanted and like spelled different. Yeah. Spelled backwards or stupid stuff like that. And they were like laughing like they were like so smart and cool. And I was like listening to this and going like, what. Why would you do something like that if you really are trying to catch a hundred criminals with some harebrained scheme like this? You would not like name the name of the. Of the building jail cell backwards, which is like pretty much what they were, you know, because like, all it would take is one person to really catch that and Be like. Like, there's no way any. Any criminal would find that out and then not be like, there's no way that this is a coincidence. You know what I mean? Like, when. When they were. They were literally using, like, words like that. Like, it wasn't jail cell, but it was like, it was pretty much like that. [01:14:29] Speaker A: Wanted in narc or something. [01:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, stop. Like, you're not that funny. You're. You're in a. Miss your opportunity. Oh, man. But I digress. All right, Trap, what'd you guys think about it if you saw it? Let us know if you're on YouTube. Hi. Hello. How are you? If you're listening to us in your car, in your home, wherever, through audio. Hi. Hello. How are you? We want you guys to follow us on YouTube. Subscribe to our channel. [01:15:04] Speaker A: Yes. [01:15:04] Speaker B: Find us real heads. We've got. We got some great stuff there, and we've got some. We got some cool episodes on the way, so stay tuned. Ian, what's your. What's your final thoughts? I don't know if you. If you want. If you want to give actual review or how you want to go. [01:15:22] Speaker A: I would say my final thoughts, my final grading or whatever you want to call it would be. It's three endings. That's it. [01:15:31] Speaker B: Three endings. [01:15:32] Speaker A: Three endings. [01:15:33] Speaker B: I like that. It is three endings. And I would also give it three bottles of oil in the fryer. [01:15:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:43] Speaker B: Of oil. Just three. [01:15:48] Speaker A: Just three. No, no, more than three. [01:15:50] Speaker B: Three. Three of what? Just three. [01:15:52] Speaker A: Just three. [01:15:53] Speaker B: Yep. That's what it needs. [01:15:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:56] Speaker B: All right, guys, being said, have a good rest of your week. We'll see you. Whoa. Almost dropped my microphone on my face. We'll see you next time. Have a good rest of your week. Shout out. Shout out skull mug. Right. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:10] Speaker B: Shout out my goony shirt. Right. [01:16:12] Speaker A: That is. Honestly, it's kind of themed. [01:16:14] Speaker B: It is a bit themed. And I got skull rings on my hand. [01:16:17] Speaker A: I'm feeling you're just all skulled up. [01:16:18] Speaker B: I'm skulled up today, guys. Hey, cheers to you. Cheers to me. Cheers to we. Cheers to three. Is that a. Did I just make something up? [01:16:30] Speaker A: I feel like I've heard it before, but I think you ad libbed. [01:16:33] Speaker B: I think I did. [01:16:34] Speaker A: That being said, we'll see you later. [01:16:37] Speaker B: See you later. Bye.