Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast, guys. Real heads, we're back at it again with another episode. I'm your host, Ian. No, I'm not. I'm your host, Marquez.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Yeah, you're Ian. I am Ian.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: We're leaving it in. I just. I'm looking at you, and I'm just like, ian, look at that specimen over there. That. That's the guy. That's the guy we want.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: I appreciate you.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: You agree? Yeah, of course. You better freaking agree. All right, guys, let's jump into it. So today we're going to be talking about Woman of the Hour, which is a Netflix movie that just came out. That is Anna Kendrick's directorial debut.
What do you say?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Number one?
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Number one, number numero uno. We all know Anna Kendrick. She's been in countless numbers of things. You may have seen a small little movie, Pitch Perfect. I know not many people saw it, but we definitely saw it.
Yeah. Yeah, she. She was in Twilight a little bit. Still. Little role, you know. You know, nothing compared to, like, Pitch Perfect, though. Small film. Small indie film. Yeah.
But anyway, she's been in other things, too. But, yes, this is her directorial debut. And this film, it kind of goes over a bit of this interesting phenomenon of this serial killer, Rodney Acala, and his appearance on this TV show, the Dating Game, which I didn't realize is an actual show. Yeah, like, it was a. It was a real thing that existed that people actually went on, celebrities went on. Michael Jackson was on this show. Michael Jackson.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Was he known? I mean, he had to be known.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: All right, well, that's good.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: He was on. He was on the show. I think he was like the person doing the picking, you know, Which. Which.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Is that how he met Billie Jean, maybe?
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Could be. But no. So, I mean, what do you. What do you know? How much do you know about this case? And in just the terms of, like, the. The legality of it, the actual, like, real. Real life stuff of this case. Did you know much going in?
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Not a ton. No. I knew.
I knew about the game show, and then I think I even remember seeing somewhere talking about how there was a, like, a person on the show who was like a dangerous person and a threat to women and whatnot. And so I. I knew about it. I didn't know whatever came of it or whatever happened or any of the legal or any of the other cases or anything like that. I just knew that this show existed at some point in time and that there was a very dangerous person who was on a part of the show.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: So, yeah, I. I'm. I'm kind of with you on that as well. I. It may be even less so. Like, I. I didn't know anything about this guy, this case. I didn't know this existed or anything like that. So it was very interesting to learn about. So for anyone who may have not seen the film and is also a bit in the dark on this. So this guy was Rodney Acala, infamously known as the Dating Game Killer, and he's American serial killer, a rapist who committed a series of brutal murders all across the US from about 1971 to 1979.
So that's kind of the baseline of where they got the story from, who this guy is and his terrible, terrible deeds. So I want to get into some of the details of the film itself.
So we're going to kind of just jump right in. So there liberty for spoilers, free liberty of spoilers going in.
So if you guys don't want to catch that, then go ahead and watch the film and come back. It's on Netflix, but we'll just jump right into that. So I want to talk a little bit about the creative liberties that were kind of taken by Anna and the team. Well, for the story. So one of the things that I learned was that. So Bradshaw's character and his character, they gave her a bit more of a backstory in the. In the show than she does in. In real life. In real life, there really wasn't a lot known about her. There's not a lot like, at least, like, publicly. Like, there wasn't a lot of information like, yes, we know she was an actor. Yes, we know that she was on that show, but they gave her just a bit more characterization in the film. They let her speak a lot more and have a bit more emotional moments during, like, the taping than what I think she actually ended up having when she taped that.
And then there's also, like, the. The whole scene of. At the end where he's trying to get at her and she's, like, trying to get away. That. That doesn't happen when he's following her. Yeah, because he. In real life, she. She caught the vibes really early that he was just a bit icky and off, and she never even accepted a date for the guy.
So there's.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: That did. But did she pick him?
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: I think so. And then another one would be the. Let me see.
No, I already said that. Okay. Yeah. So that. The other one I was just gonna say was just that they. They did dramatize The. The whole date thing. Like, she never went on the date. He didn't go on a date with her in real life. But they did that in the film, which makes sense. You know, I think that.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: And in movies like these, you do kind of have to fudge a little bit or a little bit of lines for more of, like. Like, I don't. I struggle to say entertainment because I feel like films like these, I don't think that animate this to be necessarily entertaining as so much as, like, informative and insightful, like letting people know, like a. This is a thing that happened. These. This. And it happened to these women unjustly. And we need to be more aware of when situations like this happen. We need to listen to women. We need to. You know, like, I feel like there was a lot of positive reasons why the. This was made. So I struggle to say that they make these choices necessarily for entertainment purposes. I think maybe the better way to say would probably be narrative purposes, you know.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I think they did a good job with trying to explain that. Trying to, you know, capture the stress of the whole situation from the. The one character. The character who's watching the show, who had a friend who was.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: I came in contact with the guy.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Came in contact and lost her life with the guy. Yeah, I thought they did a good job with that. I thought that.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: And even that was. Was dramatized.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Because that. That character doesn't exist.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Doesn't exist. Yeah. I figured after you telling me all this. But, yeah, I think that when it comes to shows like this and stuff like this, obviously, like, it's kind of crappy that sometimes, like, oh, you think it's like a real. Real life story and you're like, oh, man, I can't believe, like, true crime stuff, you know, Like, I can't believe this happened.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Which it did probably happen to certain extents, you know, like, he was a real, you know, murderer. So, like, you know, I'm sure, like, there's. He's had. There's, you know, countless. Unfortunately, countless people who've been affected by it.
So. But there's always sometimes where you're like, oh, man. Like, I. I thought, like, I knew is. I. I think, like. And this is totally different realm of films, but the Bohemian Rhapsody movie. I like the film. I don't hate the movie.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: But they do play a lot with the timelines. That stuff happens.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: To make it more impactful of a narrative story. And that kind of like, loses a little bit of a certain light. I think that that's just a singing film. But there is important issues in that about like, you know, the AIDS epidemic.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: What do you feel like? Like it loses almost like a bit of credibility in a sense.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Credibility to an extent.
But I don't think this movie ever said that it's based off of a true story in which I also appreciate because it's not like with my under knowing of the situation that there was this guy in real life who murdered people and went on the show.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: I already knew what it was.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: I knew it was about that.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: But they didn't necessarily go the extra mile to say this is based off of anything. And maybe they did, but I didn't see any.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: No, I don't think they did either. And I think that that was intentional. I think that they really wanted to pull the focus, like the main focus away from glorifying any of this violence and putting it on the women and like, hey, this is what it looks like to be a woman in the 70s and having men just like, not listen to you and like put you in these shitty situations where you feel like you have to literally scream, scratch, claw, beg just for an ounce of actual attention to like this pressing matter. Which is insane. Yeah, it's, it's actually insane. And I know things aren't that much different now, but still. Yeah, it's insane.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: No, I, I totally agree with you.
It still was like a good film and still brought a lot of topics that need to be discussed.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: You know, throughout our ever changing nation.
But, you know, I think that they did a good job with what they were telling and they did a good job of, of bringing that two part. And like, I, I, I think when my initial view of this, I, I don't know if you've ever seen like, I know that Zack Efron show where he played Ted Bundy, the movie that came out a few years ago.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: And remember when that came out and that got a lot of buzz for people saying like, oh my gosh, like, it just brings up the memory of people like swooning over Ted Bundy. You know what I mean? And now they got handsome star Jack Zac Efron to play it. You know, it just kind of brings that back in the spotlight of like this fascination with, you know, serial killers to an extent.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: And charming ones, because majority of them are charming, you know.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: And then that came also with the series they had with what's his name guy who plays Quicksilver.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Aaron Peters.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Evan Peters. Evan Peters. Thank you.
And his show with Jeffrey Dahmer, which is still what I got. I didn't see the entire show. It was really creepy. I saw the first episode, and then Jada didn't want to watch it, so I just. I just didn't bother.
But what the overwhelming consensus of that was when. When people started to now talk about, like, our re. Fascination with these kind of, like, dangerous people who maybe don't deserve that light, you know, in that way. And maybe like, their stories, the way that they're telling these stories are not really more so giving people the knowledge of it, but more so putting it on a spotlight where it's almost romanticizing it. Like the violence, like you were saying.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, you're, you're definitely.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: I feel like that show doesn't do that.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: No, you're definitely. You're. You're. You're jumping to my. To. To one of my future topics.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: I'm so sorry.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: No, it's, It's. It's fine. Like, it doesn't have to be in any numerical order or anything like that. It's cultural impact is what I wanted to talk about. You know, the cultural impact of these true crime stories in the public fascination with. With figures like Akala, the Mendez brothers, Dahmer, Bundy, you know, and many, many others. And you've already touched on a lot of it, but, like, yeah, it's. There's, like, there's a fine line that tries to get walked, but I feel like we've kind of blown the door open to an extent and there really isn't a fine line anymore. Like, I feel like we're really just making these shows, these true crime shows, and it doesn't feel like at the heart of it, there's any underlining message outside of this person either did or maybe sometimes even maybe not did. Like, like kind of in the case, like the Mendez brothers, where it's like, well, we don't know. Like, how do you. How do you feel about what they did? Like, I feel like that show kind of put it more so in the hands of the viewer of, like. Yeah, you can kind of feel how you want to feel about it. Instead of the filmmakers making it so, like, what they did was wrong. This is definitively wrong. And we're building either a story around, like, tearing that villain down and make. And making sure that the audience knows that they are the villain, or we're doing a story like Woman of the Hour, where we're making sure that, yes, you guys know that this guy is a bad guy, but it's not even necessarily about him. It's more so about society and how society treated these victims of this terrible man. And that's. That's where I. Where. Where I applaud Anna and everyone that worked on this film, where I'm like, you guys understood the assignment. We need to step away from glorifying these serial killers and giving them platforms and anybody who might want to imitate their bullshit platforms, we need to stop getting. Becoming so infatuated with true crime as a society when there are real people, real lives that were lost, real lives that are still affected by these. These individuals today. You know, it's just. To me, I think it.
Honestly, to me, it speaks a bit to who you are as a creative and as just a person in the world when you want to put something out there that kind of, like, honestly glorifies this stuff, you know? And maybe. And maybe to some people, that might sound, like, harsh. Like, well, it's. You know, they're not glorifying it. It's like, well, but they're not doing the opposite. They're not making it definitively clear that this is wrong and that we should not do any of this. We should move away from this. Even if you put it under the lens of just. Well, it's a story, you know, it's no different than, like, the news. We're just telling you what happened. Okay, well, then let the news do that, you know, but if you're a filmmaker and you're out here to tell stories and to spread a message, which is what you should be doing as a filmmaker is making people feel emotions. We don't need to make them feel emotions about something that, like, happened in real life and not give them somewhere else to go with that, you know?
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Like, you watch Woman of the Hour, and I think you take away from that. All right, if. As. At least for me as a man, I take away from that. If I see a woman come to me and tell me that they feel uncomfortable or unsafe in an environment with so. And so I need to listen. And you know why I need to listen? Because I watched this film that showed me the implications of my actions when I don't listen.
You know, that film showed me that you can't. Like, what can you say about the O.J. show, the Mendes show, the Dahmer show, and many other shows? Like, what can you take away from that as a person going on in society after the fact?
Positively, you can't. Nothing.
There. There. There is nothing. You know, like, I'm not even gonna Try to. Try to. Try to explain away any of it. Like, you can't. Because it's not. Because they weren't. The films weren't made that way. The shows weren't made. They weren't made that way. They weren't made to get you as a person to walk away from that and go, yeah, you know what?
Never again.
But this was.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: And for that, I applaud it.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I think Anna did really. And the writers did such a really great job with this, and rightfully so.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: What?
I'm sorry. You're the guy who leading this.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: No, go ahead. You want to jump in? Jump, Jump. I'm ready.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Something else that I had to say.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: You're just going to take another one of my topics?
[00:17:24] Speaker B: No, I'm sorry. No, I'm kidding, dude. Go ahead. What was it? I think it slipped my mind now that I'm thinking about it, but. All right.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: You want me to jump?
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead and jump. I can't think of what I was trying to ask.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: No, no. Let me. Let me. Let me know if you catch it. Okay. So the next thing I wanted to talk about was a bit of the fact versus fiction, okay. Points for this film.
Not a whole lot of super noteworthy ones, but one of the ones that I wanted to point out was in the film, there was a survivor, Amy, who escapes and leads to Akala's arrest at the end.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: So this character is based off of Monique Hoyt, who was a teenage hitchhiker who actually did survive an attack by Akala in 1979, and later her testimony contributed to his conviction, but her escape didn't necessarily lead to his immediate arrest, which is super freaking sad. So she did get to escape, but he did get to kind of like.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: Did he make bail or something?
[00:18:30] Speaker A: He did eventually make bail. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, it wasn't. They didn't catch him immediately after she escaped. Like, they caught him sometime later.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: And I think that. I think they had found, like, a girl's necklace, like, in a storage locker. And I want to say it was like the storage locker from his time on the show, which is just crazy and eerie and gross, but. Yeah. So if the guy basically got caught, they took him to jail and his mom bailed him out. Can you believe that?
Like, his freaking. Yeah, mom bailed him out.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Oh, that's what. Oh, I remember what I was going.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: To bring up, but yeah.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I. Yeah, unfortunately, that there's an American dad episode. I used to be a really big American dad, and Family Guy fan. You know, when I was growing up, there's an American dad episode like that where this guy is just a sleazeball and he gets arrested for being a sleazeball, and then he gets out because his mom is. Pays for it. And so it's just like, it does bring up the question of, like, you know, when is enough enough? I guess you could say, you know, like. Like, of course it's your child. Like, I get that. Like, but there's times where it's like, man, like, that's crazy, you know, and.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Again, like, I think this. This also, I. I want to point out, goes to show, like, the true direction that the. The team here had, where, like, in a typical true true crime doc, you probably would have seen that. They probably would have showed you, like, yeah, and then the mom came and, you know, bailed him out of jail and, like, you know, I mean, like, they would show all of that.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: And it's like, but for what? Like, what are you trying to show us? That, like, people suck and, like. Like, what is it? Like, what is. There's no reason for. It doesn't serve. It wouldn't serve the greater narrative that they're. They're trying to tell us with this film. So it's nice that, like, yeah, they. They embellish that a little bit. He gets caught and, like. But they do explain afterwards in, like, the little text that he did go on to commit some more murders, but he did end up getting caught and whatnot. And then we'll jump. We'll get into that a little bit later.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: But so my point about that was, like, I feel like we have this, like, obsession to an extent with serial killers because. Because we've always liked complex villains. You know what I mean? In our stories.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: And so I feel like that's maybe a runoff of that. It was where these shows were made, and we're getting that as a society of, like, oh, well, like, you know, I really liked. You know, I'm a Dragon Ball Z fan. I watched, like, Dragon Ball Z and Vegeta used to be a bad guy, and now he's not a bad guy, and he's pretty cool. And like, you know, same thing with Piccolo. You know, you get these characters who are complex, like, written, and everybody likes a comeback story. You know what I mean? So, like, it makes them kind of like an underdog situation.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: That makes me so sad, though. You know why it makes me sad? Because. Because of two things. Because if what you want is complex villains, you. You you can, you can do that. Just write it.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Make. Make a story that is not based off of real life. You could even be inspired, as weird as that sounds, by some of these serial killers. If that's really the bag you're trying to get into and make your own serial killer. Make. Make your own villain and write that story. But at least then we're not, you know, bringing the attention to this real life thing that affected real life people and putting it under the guise of. It's just entertainment.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: You know what I mean? So it's like you can do that, but people aren't. People want to do that. I feel like this is the easier route. This is the. Sure. This is the. To most people's minds, this is the more surefire route. Why don't I, Why don't I just. Instead of coming up with my own Thanos, my own Vegeta, my own Zuko, you know?
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: Like, I'm just gonna. Let me just do this guy. He's. He already exists. He's already a villain with the, with the backstory. Easy. No, come on. Like, like, you know. And you wonder why we. We always talk about how there's. There's not that many new horror villains like that that have had mainstay like the greats in. In the pantheon of horror villains. Because people aren't. They're all writing them, they're. Maybe they are, but those movies aren't getting made. Maybe it's both, but still, like, that's. That's where I feel like we need to go. Like we need to step away from this true crime nonsense and this, this obsession with trying to take real life and making it entertaining just for the sake of entertaining without anything nuanced to say about it and anything, anything for the audience to walk away with and, you know, in a positive way and instead do. If you want to make bleak movies like that, make bleak movies, but just do it with your own characters. You know, flex that creative muscle a little bit. You got it. You can do it.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Sorry, it's just.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: No, you're fine.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Fresh. It's just frustrating. It's so frustrating because we, we eat it up too. Like, we, like as a society, every time a new one comes out, you know, And I just want that trend to go away, like, so badly. I want that trend to go away because, you know me, we talk about this on the pod all the time. Like, I am a huge advocate for new stories, new IPs, new stories. Just. I'm so sick and tired of Seeing everything be rehashed and retold. Like, I want to see something new, you know, and I know we've got it. We've got, we got creatives out there that are busting their butts at these indie studios making true art, you know, but those movies aren't getting pushed to the mainstream and. But that's why we're here, you know, that's why we're here to talk about those and to bring some of those movies to light.
And we will continue to do so. But jumping back into it, another fact versus fiction I had here was that. So his actual capture did come after he abducted and murdered a 12 year old girl.
Her name was Robin Samsoe. This happened in California. Her remains were found days later and it was actually a college parole officer that identified him from a police sketch and it was her earrings that were found in his storage locker. So that, that was the actual nail in the coffin for him.
Yeah. So super, super sad stuff. But yeah, in the grand scheme of narrative storytelling for the film, I think it made sense how they, they told it how they did, you know, instead of like, oh, and then let me show you them how he's getting this girl too. Because like, yeah, I guess people could, you know, might be itching for that scene to see, you know, and even in the film you can, you can, you can point out too that they, they didn't really show a lot of gruesomeness or like extreme brutality, you know, they would, they would cut away and like let you just hear.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: And imagine that horror.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: And I think that for a film like this, that's all you needed, you know, like, could you show it? Sure, I'm fine. You know, especially because that, it's not the main point of this film. They could have if they wanted to, but I appreciate that they didn't. I think it made sense and I think it landed how they wanted it to land, to be honest.
Yeah. But I want to also highlight the bravery of some of the women that were in the crosshairs of this guy, like Monique Hoyt and Cheryl Bradshaw.
Even though Cheryl didn't really have a ton to do with the situation, you know, like, she still was able to escape this man because she was definitely next on the chopping block at that time. Being on the show and Monique being able to like actually like be a victim of him and still survive and get out of there is incredible actually. So, so incredible.
So just wanted to also shout out, you know, the bravery of those women. That's pretty awesome.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: So then I also want to talk about kind of just like, the case and, like, how, you know, his. His whole case and like, the weird, like, legal stuff and like, the weird societal issues that were going around that were happening around this time in regards to him and what he was doing and. And just kind of like, why that was and like, what, like, how you felt about it. Like, I want to know, like, kind of your thoughts about, like. Because the story kind of shows you that, like, there. This guy kind of had already been. He'd already been arrested once, out on bail, and he's out and about on national television at that, doing whatever, and still people are just, like, turning a blind eye. Police aren't really a big help in the movie. Like, so I just wanted to get your thoughts on how you felt about seeing how things were dealt.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
Unfortunately, it's, like, not surprising how they tried to tell the film, you know. And unfortunately, it also is pretty similar to real life in the case. It's just like. It's just very. They're not, like, quick to it, you know, not saying that, you know, people deserve a free trial. Know they deserve to.
You know, everybody deserves to stay in trial, you know, but it just is like, there were so many outliers. There's so many reports and stuff.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: That it's almost like, okay, well, like, we need to start paying attention to this person.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, you didn't background check this man.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially for the show. It's like, yeah.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: On national television, you didn't background check this guy.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's sad. So sad because he is, like I said, it's. He's a charming person.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: As a charming personality. Says the. The right stuff. But maybe necessarily, maybe necessarily doesn't really believe in it. Like, he just says it to make sure he gets his victim, you know?
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: But he, you know, is just.
It's not surprising to see just people not wanting to jump the gun and assume the worst. And it is sad and not saying.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: That, like, people really were so trusting.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Especially white men, like, back in. In that time.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially in the old trusting of anybody. You know, in the old days. You know, hitchhiking was like super big back then. You know what I mean? Like, it just is. It was a different time where people just trusted the goodness or, like, had a general respect that, oh, this person is not necessarily going to hurt me, but I don't know anything about them, you know, and, you know, now that we know that all these crazy stuff has happened and all These serial killers and murderers are out there now it's a little more like, oh, well, now I don't want to trust anybody to an extent. Not, not necessarily in that way, but you know, they're. Everybody's more cautious.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Right. I also want to point out too, that Rodney is a Mexican American. He is not a white man.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't want to get that. Get that confused with what I was saying earlier. He. He is a white man, but still, like, you know, he got to kind of lean on like his charisma and his good looks to get himself ahead. But like, what I was saying still stands. Like, you know, if you were a good looking white man in. In that day and age, like, you could get away with a lot.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Well, you see.
You seen American Psycho?
No, never seen American Psycho. Really interesting.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Wait, no. Yes.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: With Christian Bale.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Yes, sorry. Yes, I have.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: All right.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: I don't know why I was thinking of Psycho when you said that.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: Wait, you never seen Psycho?
[00:31:09] Speaker A: No, never seen Psycho.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Gosh, okay, sorry. My brain was just running to say, what does it matter with you?
[00:31:19] Speaker A: But no, no, you're good.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it just. I mean, even with Psycho, I mean, like, these people are successful, you know, not. I mean, in Psycho, since he's not like down on his luck, you know what I mean? Like, he owns his own business, but in American Psycho he's a very successful, normal looking person.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: And you want to assume nothing bad, and still today, people want to assume nothing's gonna bad happen. But if red flags start to be red flag, and I feel like maybe you should start to maybe potentially look into the red flags with a little more caution.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: 100. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. 100.
Yeah. His case just definitely underscores the failures in the justice system and the society at the time. Society even now. Shoot, don't get me started.
Yeah, we like parole oversights, no background checks. It's. It's wild.
All that stuff could have been prevented. And it seems like we still don't learn, unfortunately. So that's where I feel like us as men need to take it upon ourselves to protect the women in our lives, the women in society, women all around. You know, you see something wrong, you see something off. It doesn't matter if you know that person or not. Check in, you know, don't check out.
I think that's.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: No, I think that's important. Yeah, I think that, you know, not trying to sound like we're the man and we're gigantic, you know, like we're the big beefy man, you don't.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: You don't even have to be. That's the thing, though, because, like, a lot. A lot of these, These. These serial killer guys, like, they're. They're trying to do what they're trying to do discreetly.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:09] Speaker A: They don't want to be caught. So all. All it really takes is just a presence, just having the presence of someone else in that space to catch them off guard and so that they're like, oh, yeah, let me actually back off. You know, like, as you saw in the film when. When. When he met. She met up with Akala in the parking lot and he was creeping up. You know, all it took was those men who didn't even see them out there that came outside of their little. Their little door of the garage. They didn't even see them. But he knew, like, I mean, if. If things do get cracking and there is a huge possibility that I'm getting caught and he knows that he doesn't want to get caught. So. Yeah, it doesn't. You don't have to be the biggest man, the strongest man, you know, it's all about just making sure that that person knows that, hey, like, if you try something, like, there is, you know, the. The outcome of it going good for you is not a surefire bet, and they're not going to want to take that chance.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
So another interesting point about the. The film and also, like, just the real life case was because it kind of took a while for him to get his sentencing after he was actually caught, the technology of DNA testing actually caught up and got to the point to where they were able to do DNA testing and link him to a bunch of unsolved cases, including some murders that happened in New York. Even. So, it's just like, I love that for getting your comeuppance. You know what I mean? Like, that is a rare judicial system w. You know, where, like, waiting so long for sentencing to happen, which is just historically what always fricking happens, that technology catches up and. And yeah, now we don't even have to really deliberate much. Like, we got you, bro. We got you. You're done.
So he was also sentenced to death multiple times, but he actually died of natural causes in jail. Jail in 2021, so.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: Oh, wow. That's pretty recent. I didn't know so soon.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he lived to be 77.
Should have been way less in my opinion, but, yeah, we are so, you know, getting. Getting towards the end here. I want to know, like, so what's your. How do you feel about Anna Kendrick's direction and the performance of the cast on the film as well?
[00:35:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, it was really good. I really liked this film a lot. It was.
The acting was really great. And Anna's acting was also great. And I'm sure directing and acting is always, you know, a challenge, so. Yeah, but I thought that her confidence was on the screen.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: And all the time. I agree.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: That's a great way to put it. It felt like for a directorial debut, that she was confident that she. She had a vision, she had a goal, and she. I feel like she executed it very well.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Honestly, very well. And there was never a moment where I was where I kind of questioned anything or thought, oh, maybe, maybe I might do something different here or go a different way. Like, I completely enjoyed, you know, everything that she put out on that screen. I think she did phenomenal. I think the actors did great. The man who played a car, I think he did a really good job. All the women who got to play the victims in this, I think did a really good job. Even the sleazy dude, contestant number two, you know, I liked him. He did a good job. Because I caught myself being like, dude, shut the heck up, man. Like, you're just saying some goofy stuff, you know. But I liked how he did try to warn her, you know, when he gave her like the hug at the end. But, yeah, and I did a great job.
So I guess I would kind of want to wrap up a bit here and kind of get some final thoughts about how. How do you feel in filmmakers should balance telling stories of victims without glorifying the killers?
[00:37:33] Speaker B: I think it's just. It does come down to how we view the victim's story and how it's being told as this person did suffer from this and in a lot of cases lose their life from this. And I feel like that sometimes gets overlooked, you know, and especially kind of like in horror films, you know. I know, I know this is not like a true crime, you know, talking about more so true crime than a horror. But you know, in horror films, like, that's the. The, you know, the feel of it is like, oh, this is the final girl. Obviously these people are to die, but hopefully she makes it out. You know what I mean? Like, that's like the overall look of how a horror film usually goes and sometimes not.
[00:38:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: But you still get to see, like, their anguish. But sometimes it's like played off as, like, over the top violence. And I think that.
I think that sometimes with these true crimes, we can become over the top violence. And like, there, in a lot of those cases, it is over the top violence sometimes.
But I like, in this movie, they cut away from it and just let you listen to it. And I think that says a lot of how like this, if you didn't look at it, like, it's disturbing.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: Extent.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Not to an extent. It is disturbing. I'm sorry.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: And I think that's just ultimately where we should probably be moving towards telling these stories, being respectful of, like, this disturbing act of crime happened to this person.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: And this is not something to make fun of or not necessarily make fun of, but this is not something to, like, take lightly.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I don't even want to say, like, I'm not even like, wanting to, because I'm agreeing with a lot of what you're saying, but I also don't. Don't want to. I'm not trying to say, like, I feel like we need to, like, censor the violence and censor the gore and stuff like that. To me, it just becomes about how we package that.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: What is the end goal? Yeah, no, that's. I feel like we're on the same page there. It's like, what do. What. What is the point? What are we getting to? Because I think about the, the true crime videos and stuff like that, and documentaries and like the, the movies and the TV shows that don't do it this way. And I think you think about narratively how those stories usually go. You kind three options of how you. You can have climactic events, your kills, the courtroom scenes, like slash sentencing, and the either final arrest or final, like, death of the guy if they, if they die before they get basically taken in. Those are your three things. So you have to basically, like. And if you don't have your story built around anything else but those things, you know, like, it, like, then you are gonna inherently kind of glorify it a bit because you're gonna have to ham it up, you know, those are your climax moments, you know, so we're either super invested in, like, the legality of what, what these people did and how they either got off or got away with it or get sentenced, which is like, you know, a problem in of itself. If you're, if we're not focusing on why the system is the way that it is to kind of allow these people to get away with what's going on. If we're not, you know, telling the story through that light, then you kind of failed. And then if you're going the route of all your climactic moments being the kills, then you know, like, it's not a horror movie. So it's like, that's obviously bad. We're sitting here like, okay, well, what's the point of this? Yeah, we know. He, they got those people. They killed those people. That's, that's sad. That sucks. But, like, now it's being played just for entertainment. There's nothing to take away from that. And then if you have, like, the death and like, the ending, the ending part, you know, it's still the same thing. It's like you're going to have to amplify this to a degree to make it entertaining. And now it's just like, there's nothing really to take away from any of that. Like, you don't, you don't, you know, that's why you walk away from a show like Dahmer and you don't necessarily feel good. You know, like, you don't feel good about anything. You feel gross because you're just like, yeah. I mean, he was a sick man and did some sick shit. And the film, like, the, the show just lets you sit with that.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: You know what I mean? And that bothers me. I hate it because it's just like, why, like, why do I need to be subjected to this? I already know, you know, it's not informing me of anything else new or insightful or impactful. It's just. Yeah. And he's bad.
Thank you. Thank you. I agree.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: We already knew that.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Right? So I feel like, you know, just continue to piggyback off of your thoughts, man. I just, I just feel like we need to, we need to, as filmmakers, we need to make sure that we aren't glorifying killers, that if we have something to say, by all means, say it and write that film and get that film made and share that art with the world. Because these kinds of stories can be artful and they can also be impactful. But if they are, neither of those things. Don't make it. Please, you know, please, like, just, it's just, it's a waste. It's a waste. In my opinion. Like, you, you, you'd be much better served doing something else.
So that's how I feel about that.
I know I, I, I jumped in on your, on your, on your explanation. So if, if you want had anything, anything else to, to add, please, I don't want to trample all over you.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: No, no, no. What you said is totally fin. Fine. And I agree with the, you know, if it's a fake fiction movie that is nothing like.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: Then do what you want.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: What you want.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Yeah. The Saw movies are the most glorifying of a serial killer movie I've ever seen in my life. But it's fake.
[00:44:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:10] Speaker A: You know, like, Tobin Bell, amazing actor, plays a terrible man. He's terrible.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:18] Speaker A: And we all love it. It's fine. It's fine. Know, like, because that you. You go into that movie and you know what it's about. You're watching the sick man twist his idea of what redemption means and by torturing people and trying to get them to ascend to this greater level of, you know, thinking of life and their life choices. And, I mean, it's sick. It's. It's sick stuff. But that's just for entertainment. They don't. They don't want you to walk away from Saw feeling good about yourself and your life choices. You know, it's not. It's not what it's for.
But why, why, why does Saw feel more connected to Dahmer than Dahmer feels to Woman of the Hour?
You know what I mean? And that's where I feel like we've kind of failed in how we. We look at these kinds of films, how we consume them and talk about them. I think we failed. And that's why it's so important that you and I sit here and we have these conversations and we shed light on this stuff. And I hope that people listening. I hope that you guys take away something good from this conversation, and hopefully you guys, you know, have some of your own opinions as well. And if you don't agree, you don't agree. But if you do, then, you know, that's. That's cool, too.
So I think with that, I think we'll. We'll jump into our review, our final thought.
[00:45:44] Speaker B: Review.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: What do you. What do you think, Ian?
[00:45:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I really like this film a lot. I thought Anna Kendrick did a good job.
I'm going to leave off with this film being three and a half. Anna Kendrick's first director debuts out of five.
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Okay, I like that. I'm going to go ahead and rate this one.
Let's say I'm going to go ahead and rate this one. Eight seasons of the Dating Show. Is that what it's called? The Dating Game.
[00:46:27] Speaker B: The Dating game.
[00:46:30] Speaker A: Out of 10.
Solid, solid, solid first film.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good, solid landing.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great landing. Please make more.
Please make more.
[00:46:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm interested to see where she goes.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: I am, too. 100. So, yeah, if you guys haven't seen it, check it out. It's on Netflix. It's a really good watch, easy watch, short movie. It's only like an hour and 30 minutes. So, yeah, you're in and out super quick.
But, yeah, that's going to be it for the show today, guys. Catch us on YouTube. Real heads. Catch us on Instagram. Real heads everywhere. You listen to podcasts. If you guys aren't on YouTube, please check us out on YouTube. We're trying to build the following over there. We're trying to, you know, get you guys to come see our shiny, bright, and beautiful faces. You know, there was a point in time where we didn't have a YouTube. Yeah, you know, there was a point in time where we. Where we. Where our videos didn't really look like the nicest and our sound quality was pretty bad. It was pretty.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: It was.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: There's a point in time where it was literally just me and Ian sitting at my. My. My. My kitchen table with a blue yeti mic that we didn't use for ASMR because we didn't know that that was a thing.
And we had one mic, and we had the gate up way too high, and you could hear everything in that room. You hear everything.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: You can hear. You can hear my dog fart in the other room. That's how high that game was. And we. And we did some weird stuff on that podcast, and we had a lot of iterations of the podcast, but this is where we've landed here at Real Heads in my now office room that I worked hard to set up and make look as good as I can with the amount of money that I have in my bank account. So, please, I'm like the Bernie Sanders meme where he's like. Where he's, like, sitting there telling them to vote or whatever. I'm like, please, please watch us on YouTube so I can feel good about my life choices. Okay, until next time, guys. Until next week. See you later.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: See you later. Bye.
